I was a long time member of the old XA led by Tanker.
This was a fine group under fine leadership.
Current XA has some good players in it but in my experience its leader tarnishes their reputation amongst those who are not in his circle of friends
(and therefor in his mind: his enemies). That is not something I pull out of the air, that is something its leader told me himself in less flowery terms.
So should a bad leader make or break an official faction request?

Nobody is perfect, and everyone loses their temper once or twice. that's perfectly normal.
But a leader with a bad attitude towards others radiates that upon his faction instead of giving the good example.
In that light I applaud this decision. It seems to be the only fail safe this community has next to banning leaders of official factions.
Have people try harder to be good, respectful towards others, and most of all stand above faction nationalism that is the great bane of disco.
If they manage that they can always try again some time later.
If you're the person in question, try to prove them wrong by bettering yourself.
Not by shouting them down, or trying to prove it with a thousand and one arguments.

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Madvillain Wrote:I was a long time member of the old XA led by Tanker.
This was a fine group under fine leadership.
Current XA has some good players in it but in my experience its leader tarnishes their reputation amongst those who are not in his circle of friends
(and therefor in his mind: his enemies). That is not something I pull out of the air, that is something its leader told me himself in less flowery terms.
So should a bad leader make or break an official faction request?

Nobody is perfect, and everyone loses their temper once or twice. that's perfectly normal.
But a leader with a bad attitude towards others radiates that upon his faction instead of giving the good example.
In that light I applaud this decision. It seems to be the only fail safe this community has next to banning leaders of official factions.
Have people try harder to be good, respectful towards others, and most of all stand above faction nationalism that is the great bane of disco.
If they manage that they can always try again some time later.
If you're the person in question, try to prove them wrong by bettering yourself.
Not by shouting them down, or trying to prove it with a thousand and one arguments.

I was going to say something similar except for the first part, but okay.
So Ill agree

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(05-31-2019, 11:47 PM)Madvillain Wrote: I was a long time member of the old XA led by Tanker.
This was a fine group under fine leadership.
Current XA has some good players in it but in my experience its leader tarnishes their reputation amongst those who are not in his circle of friends
(and therefor in his mind: his enemies). That is not something I pull out of the air, that is something its leader told me himself in less flowery terms.
So should a bad leader make or break an official faction request?

Nobody is perfect, and everyone loses their temper once or twice. that's perfectly normal.
But a leader with a bad attitude towards others radiates that upon his faction instead of giving the good example.
In that light I applaud this decision. It seems to be the only fail safe this community has next to banning leaders of official factions.
Have people try harder to be good, respectful towards others, and most of all stand above faction nationalism that is the great bane of disco.
If they manage that they can always try again some time later.
If you're the person in question, try to prove them wrong by bettering yourself.
Not by shouting them down, or trying to prove it with a thousand and one arguments.

I'd agree with you if Reeves encouraged bad attitude but he does not. We do not participate in many of the "scummy" in-game activities others in Liberty do or throw salt. I think our attitude is pretty good. This simply is not how things are. Both him and I have disciplined people exhibiting poor attitude and behavior as far as the faction goes. If you have substantial evidence to argue against this, please present it. I do not see your argument as anything more than a "what if" question due to the lack of effect on our playerbase. If there were one, it would be seen in the way of sanctions and complaints and we would be denied for that reason. We have received very few complaints and zero sanctions. All complaints were acted upon promptly and resolved amicably.

In case I may be missing something, please show me examples of our faction being disrespectful towards others and providing negative experiences moreso than any other official faction. I certainly have not witnessed anything like that being allowed to stand. I was in Tanker's XA as well before he passed the torch to me. Please show me why the efforts of people in the faction deserve to be entirely disregarded because Reeves can occasionally toe the line while arguing with people. Reeves is just as good of a leader and our standards have not degraded or I would yell him up a tree myself.

If this were anything other than a judgment against Reeves I would be much more understanding, but our players haven't done anything wrong and apparently neither has Reeves since he hasn't been sanctioned. It's also an amazingly double-standard judgment as there are other OFLs that are worse than he. Should we expect those official factions to be stripped of officialdom forthwith to punish the faction instead of the supposed offender? How would you feel, as a faction member, in this situation? Would you consider it fair?

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(06-01-2019, 12:03 AM)Dark.Star Wrote:

Madvillain Wrote:I was a long time member of the old XA led by Tanker.
This was a fine group under fine leadership.
Current XA has some good players in it but in my experience its leader tarnishes their reputation amongst those who are not in his circle of friends
(and therefor in his mind: his enemies). That is not something I pull out of the air, that is something its leader told me himself in less flowery terms.
So should a bad leader make or break an official faction request?

Nobody is perfect, and everyone loses their temper once or twice. that's perfectly normal.
But a leader with a bad attitude towards others radiates that upon his faction instead of giving the good example.
In that light I applaud this decision. It seems to be the only fail safe this community has next to banning leaders of official factions.
Have people try harder to be good, respectful towards others, and most of all stand above faction nationalism that is the great bane of disco.
If they manage that they can always try again some time later.
If you're the person in question, try to prove them wrong by bettering yourself.
Not by shouting them down, or trying to prove it with a thousand and one arguments.

I was going to say something similar except for the first part, but okay.
So Ill agree

this is hilarious considering how many past staff members have been sanctioned or banned before becoming staff.

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IF they disallowed the request.. due to one person being leader.. change the leader.. the folks who make the decision made one..right, wrong, good or bad.. That is the way the cookie crumbles.. yelling around and complaining like a bunch of 5 year olds who need to scream until they get there way is not really a great way to go about things.. Doing all this publicly just shows bad sportsman ship and a lack of diplomatic ability.. This sort of behavior is what new player see and then leave .. I have no side in this.. just wish yall would try to show some class... Again.. why not just change leaders ? on paper at least.. is a "title" that important ? more so than getting official faction status ?? is all this fuss over the faction or just one persons ego ?? There is more than one way to skin a cat yah know.. Just thought I would throw that out there.. Maybe have a pew pew off with the game rulers to decide .. lol

(06-01-2019, 03:36 AM)kerfy Wrote: IF they disallowed the request.. due to one person being leader.. change the leader.. the folks who make the decision made one..right, wrong, good or bad.. That is the way the cookie crumbles.. yelling around and complaining like a bunch of 5 year olds who need to scream until they get there way is not really a great way to go about things.. Doing all this publicly just shows bad sportsman ship and a lack of diplomatic ability.. This sort of behavior is what new player see and then leave .. I have no side in this.. just wish yall would try to show some class... Again.. why not just change leaders ? on paper at least.. is a "title" that important ? more so than getting official faction status ?? is all this fuss over the faction or just one persons ego ?? There is more than one way to skin a cat yah know.. Just thought I would throw that out there.. Maybe have a pew pew off with the game rulers to decide .. lol

Perhaps the point is not that XA needs a new leader, but that the current leader didn't do anything wrong to justify denial of officialdom?

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Moreso, the problem is that if Reeves actually did something wrong, there are already mechanics to punish him for that. Warnings, sanctions, removals of SRP, indefinite bans. Punishing an entire group of dedicated people because of the """actions""" of a single individual is unprecedented and somewhat dangerous to other factions looking to gain officialdom.

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(06-01-2019, 03:36 AM)kerfy Wrote: IF they disallowed the request.. due to one person being leader.. change the leader.. the folks who make the decision made one..right, wrong, good or bad.. That is the way the cookie crumbles.. yelling around and complaining like a bunch of 5 year olds who need to scream until they get there way is not really a great way to go about things.. Doing all this publicly just shows bad sportsman ship and a lack of diplomatic ability.. This sort of behavior is what new player see and then leave .. I have no side in this.. just wish yall would try to show some class... Again.. why not just change leaders ? on paper at least.. is a "title" that important ? more so than getting official faction status ?? is all this fuss over the faction or just one persons ego ?? There is more than one way to skin a cat yah know.. Just thought I would throw that out there.. Maybe have a pew pew off with the game rulers to decide .. lol

Yeah the world would be a much better place if everyone stood by in the face of injustice and said nothing. Also it sounds like your idea of diplomacy is to concede defeat at every opportunity. That's not being diplomatic, that's just showing weakness.

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its called "working with what you got".. lol Diplomacy may also be saying "yeah ok fine" and then doing what yer doing anyway.. just keep the guns loaded ..heh heh
My thanks fer not just telling me to F off and mind my own bees wax.. ..

Is this a Steiner feedback thread now?

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