Right, so I was asked to make a completely from the ground up video explaining Disco to someone who has not done online RP before, or had games like this before.
One of the things I was suggested was that I should basically ask the following to my discords:

That, ''hey, I need you guys to do me a small favour and basically newbie-test a RP game called Discovery Freelancer. I am providing you no links, you need to find it and get it up and running yourself. Report back on any issues or confusion you encounter, thank you.''

^ I think that you all should toss this to like.. 1-2 people you know well enough who'd be willing to give feedback.
Before I make this thing, I need to replace what I ''assume'' is the biggest pitfalls with what are ''actually'' the biggest pitfalls for new players.
Cheers.

The responses should be posted here and made public so we all know what potential new players struggle with. You know, apart from the game advertising.

EDIT: Please make sure you explain that you need their report on specific issues they have faced. Not what issues they think a player other than them might face in X situation.
Speculation is something we can do ourselves.

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Well, since you made this post, I believe I can be of some assistance.
Quoting myself from an informal report I've submitted to Jammi and a few other about the subject, only slightly edited to include more recent 'data'...

===

It's been about ten days I've started this personal initiative of reaching out via direct in-game /tells to any name that realistically seemed like a newbie, and it's an initiative I'm glad to say seems to be having some degree of success.
More names seem to be reoccurring and staying, instead of vanishing into the aether.

The observations are as follows, based on about 20 interactions had so far:

- if you try to approach them in person, even with a freelancer ship, and talk to them IC they're not likely to respond
-- it could well be they're shy and don't know how to properly reply back without making "mistakes"; still, as it wasn't working, I opted for direct messaging, which is proving more successful

- most of those I contacted and replied (almost all of them, in fact; out of like 8 people, only 1 didn't and I'm not sure they even were new) weren't on the main Discord, and if they were, they'd never spoken before, not even to ask questions

- many of them were rather clueless, doing some classic blunders like going on missions alone and in a kestrel, or going on super long Helium routes also in a kestrel, or going for the Hegemonster

- most of them were not accompanied by friends and didn't know about the wiki or Darkstat, so they were more or less going in blind
-- although in more recent days I've noticed a not-insignificant number of duos and in one case a trio of players, as-yet uncontacted

- all of them had played Freelancer at some point in the past, more or less recent; not always Discovery Freelancer, but always Freelancer
nostalgia for FL and curiosity about a potential mod scene seems to have been the primary motivator for the arrival of old FL players; the Disco returnees came back of their own accord, so to speak, and in one case the YT 5.0 video was cited
- a good amount mentioned feeling somewhat overwhelmed by how different Discovery was, and that went for lapsed Discovery players as well

- none of them spoke about loneliness and I didn't ask about that directly; however I would think it unwise to discount this potentially being a problem, not seeing other players around in a multiplayer game cannot be encouraging
-- an interaction from today had the returnee say, upon my contacting and offering help, "btw its refreshing to see someone in chat! so far i've only come across "greetings" x24 and npc farmers"

- in all cases, I urged them to send me a friend request over Discord, so that I might be able to follow them more closely and offer assistance even when not ingame; this went over well, for the most part, barring 1 case in which the person (a 2020 player, apparently) preferred experimenting some more on his own after we ran some missions and I ran an overview of the many changes happened since then, and 1 other case in which the newbie assured me he was going to be fine
-- interestingly, this newbie appeared somewhat suspicious of my motives, asking what was in it for me to follow and help out people: I replied with the honest truth, namely that I want to make sure new players have someone to help them out and ask questions to, so they don't get overwhelmed and get frustrated

All this leads me to believe having people who keep an eye out for potential new players, to give them pointers and guidance, and also just to be around and make Pennsylvania more lively, could be a useful thing to have to increase new player retention.
It builds a degree of attachment to the place, and from there they might perhaps be gently nudged towards the main Discord and later a faction, so they have other players they can interact with regularly.
A better tutorial would definitely be warranted, given the (understandable) cluelessness I've observed among DIscovery first-timers or particularly lapsed players; the lack of direction right out of the gate, coupled with the many features of the game, risks adding further confusion to the place.

Adding a link to the wiki to the Discovery Freelancer main page and the forums seems wise, too.

===

As mentioned, these were all people I contacted when I spotted them ingame.
How difficult is it to get to run is a matter I can't shed much light on, although I remember a friend having had significant trouble making it work after a botched installation.

EDIT: Please make sure you explain that you need their report on specific issues they have faced. Not what issues they think a player other than them might face in X situation.
Speculation is something we can do ourselves.

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>"Help me with this:"
>*Receives help with this*
>"Off topic, irrelevant, outside the subject"

Okay.
We won't help you with this.

(08-21-2024, 09:53 PM)Tenshi Wrote: >"Help me with this:"
>*Receives help with this*
>"Off topic, irrelevant, outside the subject"

Okay.
We won't help you with this.

Stop causing a scene, please. I posted the edit without refreshing the thread. I had not seen you post.

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Not sure if this is the right place to post this. I'm probably not the target of this thread, since nobody prompted me and I've been doing roleplaying for a very long time. Still, I'm a new(?) player, so I thought I'd share some bullet points on what my experience has been like. This just felt like the most appropriate thread I could find.

For some background, I played Discovery a very long time ago, back in the neighborhood of 2008 - 2010. I was only just getting into roleplaying then. It was last month, or the month before, that I had a stray thought about checking if Freelancer was abandonware. Found it, downloaded it, played the campaign, and had a spontaneous urge to see if Discovery was still around. I've been playing for a few weeks now, mostly in a group with two of my other friends, who are also longtime roleplayers. In other times, I've been playing by myself.

So, here goes:

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[+] The mod feels less amateurish from when I last played. I haven't seen any (obvious) rips from other games or franchises. Things feel better polished, and more original, while still being in line with Freelancer.

[++] The balance is better. Liberty isn't just terrible like it was in the campaign.

(--) I don't like PVP. I don't like the impression I've been given that DIscovery is a PVP-focused mod now. I don't like how it feels that the game has suffered for it just to be more balanced. It feels like the mod's suffered the same fate as the RTS genre; trying to make a level playing field has levelled everything of interest, too.

(---) The progression track feels incredibly short for neutral IDs. It doesn't feel like there's a whole lot of difference between fighters and other fighters, guns and other guns, and so on. I didn't even feel any kind of power spike from getting a frigate on my solo character. If anything, I felt weaker than my group character is with a bomber.

(--) The concept of tech compatibility is incredibly frustrating. Having to consult a spreadsheet to be sure I'm not going to brick my ship is the dead last thing I wanted to do getting back into the game. Between that and the flattened, PVP-first balance, it's seriously discouraged me from seeking out anything new.

(-) The server feels kind of lifeless, especially during my group's Australian hours. I mostly don't see people. When I do, they're usually zipping by on a trade run. It's once in a blue moon that I even get a "hi". Being new in a well-established community, I haven't had the courage to do much more than blurt out idle chatter.

(--) Roleplaying feels seriously hamstrung by the 128 character limit in chat and the clumsy, ephemeral chat log. I've not been hooked enough to want to join the Discord server. With the shortage of people and the drought of communication, there's not much roleplaying to do, either.

(-) I come from a background mostly made up of RTS, forum, and Discord roleplaying, where I'm not constrained to a single character or perspective. It's an alien experience trying to get used to acting through a single ship, but I acknowledge that this is chiefly a personal issue.

(--) NPCs feel castrated. They all but completely ignore the player on most occasions. NPCs don't scan you, trade lane pirates just sit there and stare at you, and even the dialogue feels quieter than usual. I don't think I've once had a cruise disruptor fly at me. A lot of what I remember from Freelancer is just gone.

(--) NPCs feel overtuned. Fighting them is an irritating experience. They never stop dropping mines, and they're constantly jittering around like an epileptic on a water bed - even when flying straight. Missions are patently absurd. If it's not a flock of gunboats, it's a swarm of fighters so thick that their own mines start targeting them. I've won most of my battles, but I've only had a few I actually enjoyed.

---

My overall estimation is that there's not much to keep me engaged with the game. I see a lot of good, but I don't think much of it works for me.

The combat is a nuisance, which means the primary focus of Freelancer is a bit miserable for me. The mod's new direction is completely opposed to my preferences, so I feel like I'm flat-out in the wrong game. I feel like there's not much to look forward in improving my ship, or buying a new one. Even the discovery aspect (hurk) feels muted, since the NPCs are mostly ambivalent about my presence, and I'm reasonably sure - given the flattened balance model - that I could kill most wandering patrols by myself.

As someone who's doubled down on roleplaying as a core hobby, I'd be able to deal with all these things if I felt more inspired to craft my narrative, but it's not easy to take the first step here - especially when there's rarely anybody to take a step towards.

I've stopped playing my solo character. Assuming my current trajectory continues, I'll be departing as soon as my group loses interest. I had a lot of big ideas on story concepts, but maybe it's for the best; I don't know how well they'd mesh with Freelancer.

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(08-23-2024, 11:20 AM)Insano-Man Wrote: Not sure if this is the right place to post this. I'm probably not the target of this thread, since nobody prompted me and I've been doing roleplaying for a very long time. Still, I'm a new(?) player, so I thought I'd share some bullet points on what my experience has been like. This just felt like the most appropriate thread I could find.

Thank you for this very well thought through post, it is very helpful even if it does make for sobering reading. I've been keeping an eye on this thread and will be passing the comments along to the rest of the team for discussion, particularly in respect of how we should be approaching new player experience.

If you have any other thoughts (or questions), feel free to reach out to me here or on Discord too.

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Hi guys
Thought ,perhaps, a returning older player may make a few remarks.

When i played before the server was way busier than it is now so i see the effort in trying to encourage new players to join a fantastic, if perhaps frustrating, endevour.
Some folks will remember me as a Bretonian player who ran Gateway for a time, a BAF, QCP and shhhhhh, Phantoms player as well.

About a month ago i rejoined the server and started from scratch to get the feel of it again as the server has gone through a big change since i was last on.
So here a few thoughts on what i think a new player here needs.

1, They need to have ran through the campaign so that a new Disco player has a good idea of the story and the mechanics of the game. Granted it can be difficult for someone to download and play with Windows 10 not really letting the older games run, pesky Microsoft, so perhaps a story board on the website?
2. Player interaction can be difficult. This could be down to numbers online at any time but in my time back online i have been pirated twice. Once ,very well, in T23 by a Nomad and once very badly in the omegas. I have, true to form, passed the occasional insult to passing Bowex ships, sorry jammi , but got very little in return. Can we turn off the function that allows you to see who is where on the nav map? Keep it only in the system that you are in so that may allow more player interaction instead of avoiding players.

These are a couple of thoughts i had and i have a few more but these are more like gripes and this thread isnt the place for those.

See you all on the trade lanes.

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(08-23-2024, 11:33 AM)jammi Wrote: Thank you for this very well thought through post, it is very helpful even if it does make for sobering reading. I've been keeping an eye on this thread and will be passing the comments along to the rest of the team for discussion, particularly in respect of how we should be approaching new player experience.

If you have any other thoughts (or questions), feel free to reach out to me here or on Discord too.

I would say I don't have very many questions - certainly none that come to mind.

I think I should've included a [++] on the quality of tutorials on the server. Most of the concepts and commands were well-documented and easy to grasp. I'm just unsure of how much of that I can attribute to Discovery's own information, or to what I remembered from the old days. Likewise, I have a lot of experience with chat commands and modding compromises, so a good deal was already second nature to me. That all muddies the waters on whether I could really call myself a "new" user.

I think the only real question I'd have would be about how much space meat I could get away with in my story, but I think I'd need more roleplaying behind it before it came to that.

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I am also still reluctant on making a tutorial on RP mechanics themselves. It is a bit too opinion based, but maybe as long as you specifically address that at the start, maybe it would be fine. Shrug.

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