Canon is an interesting word, on these forums it's really hard to decide what is canon and what isn't. There are some really old RP I doubt people would approve of now a days, but back then it was Roleplayed on a lot and with a lot of different factions. Therefor, it's canon, right?
Now, place that logic with this RP. If it makes since, INRP, who are we to determine if it's canon, if there are people that are interacting with the roleplay and playing off it with others. Who are you, or me, or any one player or group decide it isn't canon? Then again, as mentioned, everyone has free will and can decide to ignore the post and the RP that follows.
But where would the fun be in that?

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Put yourself in the shoes of those reading this RP to decide how it should be treated. Nicole Hayes, from what I found, was a captain of LN. Now, different factions use different ranking systems. If we use the old LN account, a captain is one step away from admiralship but is still a mid-chain officer in charge of basically navigating a single large ship. If we compare it to ground force, it should be a colonel. Not too low for sure, but not high enough to know the real deal of secrets and all across of a house. The suggestion of @Czechmate here is valid: officers of this rank usually work on one single project. A char being a navy officer and not a researcher, a captain probably should ensure the security of a facility/project in space. For security reasons, chains usually do not know much about each other exactly to prevent leaks, so I wouldn't expect a captain to have enough knowledge on so much stuff all around Sirius.

Now put yourself in the shoes of, say, my char, the head of Kusari parliament. Let's say KNF or KOI bring this report. In matters of national security, which it is, the reliability of sources is no less important than the contents. What do we see when we look at the source? A renegade captain with personal beef with Liberty who, obviously, wants to portray it in a bad light. Not the first one, not the last. The rank of the source, as explained above, should prevent (if we follow common logic) obtaining any real sensitive info of that scale. So we have a vigilante with personal motives of painting Liberty in a bad light, with very superficial observations, and lack of access to get the said information (in theory). Would it be classified by KuGov as a credible source? Probably, no. Hence the benefits of doing shady RP and trying to get anything out of this "credible" source in exchange for protection in Kusari is more detrimental than suffering worsened relations with Liberty over a renegade whistleblower of dubious importance/credibility with no information of substance. Hence, KOI has pledged to capture her if she shows up and hand her over to Liberty. I think some other factions thought in the same way. It is not we are beating the RP, as you put it, we are playing along its RP depth -> designate it as some conspiracy theory of a nutjob. If, however, there had been a detailed profile of one single project/case (e.g. Willard Station) it would have looked much more credible for other factions to pick up.

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I just want to point out that, while Nicole Hayes was indeed just a captain in the Liberty Navy, she apparently was also the head of ESRD and would thus have access to all sorts of fancy intelligence. Now, whether a captain should be the head of ESRD is another matter but also irrelevant.

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(07-19-2023, 07:34 AM)Shimamori Wrote: Put yourself in the shoes of those reading this RP to decide how it should be treated. Nicole Hayes, from what I found, was a captain of LN. Now, different factions use different ranking systems. If we use the old LN account, a captain is one step away from admiralship but is still a mid-chain officer in charge of basically navigating a single large ship. If we compare it to ground force, it should be a colonel. Not too low for sure, but not high enough to know the real deal of secrets and all across of a house. The suggestion of @Czechmate here is valid: officers of this rank usually work on one single project. A char being a navy officer and not a researcher, a captain probably should ensure the security of a facility/project in space. For security reasons, chains usually do not know much about each other exactly to prevent leaks, so I wouldn't expect a captain to have enough knowledge on so much stuff all around Sirius.

Now put yourself in the shoes of, say, my char, the head of Kusari parliament. Let's say KNF or KOI bring this report. In matters of national security, which it is, the reliability of sources is no less important than the contents. What do we see when we look at the source? A renegade captain with personal beef with Liberty who, obviously, wants to portray it in a bad light. Not the first one, not the last. The rank of the source, as explained above, should prevent (if we follow common logic) obtaining any real sensitive info of that scale. So we have a vigilante with personal motives of painting Liberty in a bad light, with very superficial observations, and lack of access to get the said information (in theory). Would it be classified by KuGov as a credible source? Probably, no. Hence the benefits of doing shady RP and trying to get anything out of this "credible" source in exchange for protection in Kusari is more detrimental than suffering worsened relations with Liberty over a renegade whistleblower of dubious importance/credibility with no information of substance. Hence, KOI has pledged to capture her if she shows up and hand her over to Liberty. I think some other factions thought in the same way. It is not we are beating the RP, as you put it, we are playing along its RP depth -> designate it as some conspiracy theory of a nutjob. If, however, there had been a detailed profile of one single project/case (e.g. Willard Station) it would have looked much more credible for other factions to pick up.

(07-19-2023, 07:48 AM)Toaster Wrote: I just want to point out that, while Nicole Hayes was indeed just a captain in the Liberty Navy, she apparently was also the head of ESRD and would thus have access to all sorts of fancy intelligence. Now, whether a captain should be the head of ESRD is another matter but also irrelevant.

And if she was in charge of something like that, it would absolutely make sense she knew a lot about this stuff, but Nicole even wrote they had no information on LSF things as well. But, I get your point, it's not easy for outside sources to believe such bold claims and the Kusari Government probably won't believe all of it if anything, but.. Even the mention of super gates and such, that has to be of interest to most people, no? There is a lot of juicy information after all. Even if others only believe 1% of it.
But, who am I to tell you or anyone else how you play your characters, I just want to believe that, as I said, the RP isn't getting beaten down and ignored, it's unfair to a player that obviously has worked on this line of RP for a while.
Now, I should admit, I have absolutely NO stake in this, no characters are involved or probably will ever be.
But I've seen similar situations in the past and I'd hate for the community to just ignore someone's attempt to create RP.

I think we all can agree and say that we want to have fun and play with each other, right?

I do apologise if I came off as aggressive with my discussions, I felt I wanted to say something and I am glad to have had civil discussions with you all.

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... which is still a navy research initiative to make use of their funding in the most efficient way, as the LN page stated it. Correct me if I am wrong, but JG stuff is researched by Ageira, and Ageira is overall overprotective of its know-hows, IP, and stuff. The navy can cooperate ofc, especially in the field of security. And captain being in charge of such a department is also quite relevant info.

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Does it really matter at the end of the day? What's canon and what isn't has always been basically impossible to define. People spirit off their own storylines all the time and run with them as far as they see fit to. The time to pick holes in Discovery not really having any restrictions or standards in that regard has been and gone a long, long time by now.

The absolute nostalgia of a good old 'Navy defector reveals Liberty BAD!' post aside, unless other people choose to involve themselves, none of this will actually affect anyone outside the group of players it's aimed at. The world hasn't ground to a halt and nobody will care about this earth-shattering reveal in a week's time.

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(07-19-2023, 07:56 AM)Serpentis Wrote: ... Even the mention of super gates and such, that has to be of interest to most people, no? There is a lot of juicy information after all. Even if others only believe 1% of it.

Supergates are not a top-secret, though. it is even open to civilian traffic of Liberty. So no, not that much juicy info except for some intel on nomad research as @Kauket pointed out.

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(07-19-2023, 08:19 AM)Shimamori Wrote: Supergates are not a top-secret, though. it is even open to civilian traffic of Liberty. So no, not that much juicy info except for some intel on nomad research as @Kauket pointed out.

Well then, I did not know it was something public knowledge, but the example stands but just add one of the other juicy pieces of information instead.
And there's something to back up the RP now as well, so. *shrugs*

(07-19-2023, 08:18 AM)Omi Wrote: Does it really matter at the end of the day? What's canon and what isn't has always been basically impossible to define. People spirit off their own storylines all the time and run with them as far as they see fit to. The time to pick holes in Discovery not really having any restrictions or standards in that regard has been and gone a long, long time by now.

The absolute nostalgia of a good old 'Navy defector reveals Liberty BAD!' post aside, unless other people choose to involve themselves, none of this will actually affect anyone outside the group of players it's aimed at. The world hasn't ground to a halt and nobody will care about this earth-shattering reveal in a week's time.

That was my point as well, as long as people involve themselves with the RP, other people can just ignore it and go on with their day.
I wish they wouldn't, but I can't control what everyone thinks or how they want to RP.


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In the end, it's all about choice, KNF, BAF hell, even Corsairs, can just ignore all of this and go on without a care in the world. There's so little things that are forcing anyone to do anything they do not want to do or to listen to.

Maybe in a month or less no one will talk about it, as Omi said. But it may be a loss for future RP. I can imagine it being a perfect chance for foreign intelligence operatives to investigate It's basically made for them to find the truths!

Anyway, nice discussing with you all! Have a great day!

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The cynical part of me feels like there isn't much point in 'investigating' it as something like LSF, since you won't be able to effect anything beyond what other players fully want you to and will probably just end up with you being called a fascist, which looks like the Liberty lawful experience ever since the end of the Gallic war stopped giving them an easy way to LARP as the unilateral good guys.

Broadly speaking I agree with you, but my point is more that I don't think it's a springboard for other people to play off so much as part of a closed narrative disguised as something more open, unless people want to go down the road of prearranging consequences or follow-ups, or otherwise engaging themselves on the anti-Liberty angle.

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The more consequences you try to apply to something like this, the more validity you give it. It's just another person writing fanfiction on the discovery forum, nothing new, nothing unexpected. None of it matters, none of it means anything, none of it poses any tangible threat to your hoarded pixel power.

If you think it's stupid just ignore it and move on with your day. It'll be good for your health.

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