Hogosha
Hogosha is basically the third Keiretsu in Kusari, they are closely tied to the government and have law enforcement lines
Unione Corse
They are both feared by Gallic lawfuls in canon and used for bounties, have law enforcement lines. They also officially control Provence - a Gallic system with Corse maintained tradelanes alongside the Union.

@Karst suggested I ask about change of Government rules from:

Why

• Incentive for Hogosha and Corse to go OF
  
• Hogosha and Corse don't have pirate lines in house, can enforce laws and laws directly impact their gameplay
  
• Corse in canon cooperates with Union and got "dumped" or "handed over" expenses and responsibility for Provence depending on view
  
• Hogosha has influence over gov in canon, is used by them (not an expert here)
  
• They both are used as hitmen by each respective government. Where Hogosha is more "loyal" and corse more self-serving and plays more sides.
  
  
  
  Staff asked me to post this thread so they can see public response before they e.g. allow corse rep into official gov discord, with or without vote - please give your opinions.

Yeah so this came up in Galgov chat.

Truth be told, I'm not entirely sure why Corse have law enforcement lines to begin with. I'm certainly not a big Gallia expert, and I'm pretty sure many of the infocards are also outdated.
But nothing I can find about the faction mentions them acting as law enforcement. They are purely a criminal syndicate, who sometimes hunt down targets for the State, so they are somewhat tolerated - accordingly, they have the same "contract" line as the Freelancer ID. I'd sort of understand if they could enforce their own laws in Provence, which is effectively sovereign, but I really don't get why they'd be enforcing Gallic laws. Nothing I could find suggests that this is something that they do.

I have similar questions about the Hogosha ID, however, they have the backing of the biggest corp in the house, and are significantly more legitimized than the Corse.

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I would take another approach and add unlawful/quasi-lawful factions to the new government chats for ooRP and gameplay's sake, like an observer role. Considering how easy it is to start hating on each other, and resort to scummy ingame tactics or flat out refusal to interact with the opposing side inside the same house, communication and more transparency (especially supervised by staff) can only be a plus. Worst case an argument starts and the responsible people get kicked out of the chat, life goes on like it does now.

An additional step would be to have a representative of unlawful factions' opposition parties, such as Gaians, Blood Dragons, Bundschuh, etc. who have inRP political parties with a not-so-negligible popularity. This one is more inRP, though I still wouldn't let them decide on government votes because they're not the leading party/side. It would, however, add more transparency and potential for a healthier environment inside a house. Both sides of the coin need to work together to have an enjoyable experience for everyone involved, because it's so easy to turn it into a 1-up shit fest full of vitriol.

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Well.

Aside from House Corporations and Lawfuls generally y'know, following the law, and unlawfuls not doing that, they also have specific lines against enemies of the houses, and law enforcement lines of course (which Corse and Hogosha also have). So those IDs are directly impacted by house diplomacy and legislation, by ID lines, and unlawfuls are not.

Maybe you could argue that Unlawful OFs could be observer members, for said transparency. I don't know about that.
I certainly don't think they should be voting members, though. Imagine like, Hessians voting on a POB license, while being the most likely people to attack it? Very weird situation.

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Can we please stay on topic for now - this is a unique case for the two that can be acted on quickly, adding unlawfuls is a different and much, much bigger decision in scope.

(10-27-2023, 02:10 PM)Karst Wrote: Well.

Aside from House Corporations and Lawfuls generally y'know, following the law, and unlawfuls not doing that, they also have specific lines against enemies of the houses, and law enforcement lines of course (which Corse and Hogosha also have). So those IDs are directly impacted by house diplomacy and legislation, by ID lines, and unlawfuls are not.

Maybe you could argue that Unlawful OFs could be observer members, for said transparency. I don't know about that.
I certainly don't think they should be voting members, though. Imagine like, Hessians voting on a POB license, while being the most likely people to attack it? Very weird situation.

Yeah of course, they’d be observers and have no voting rights.

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From what I know of the old Corse infocards that are still around and from what the RP was back when I was part of the [UC] official group, they were more or less a shadow group that had heavy influence over Gallic politics, very similar to the way the Mafia did/does in Sicily and southern Italy. The Corse wouldn't necessarily be as influential as the major corporations are in Gallic space, but they have enough influence and money built up over their centuries of running the grey and black market in Gallic space that they have to at least be tolerated.

As per why they have the line in regards to enforcing house laws, that's more to do with them wanting to maintain a control of said grey and black markets. It also has to do with keeping themselves legitimate as far as the Crown/Union is concerned. Again, working very similarly to the way the Mafia operates/operated, where they would have their own "rules" that they would enforce to keep actual legal issues from happening. So basically, the line exists to allow the Corse to police the illegal activities in Gallia without having to have a bunch of extra clauses added on to the ID that would cause confusion.

And yes, if they were to be included into the new government systems, them being their as observers with the ability to at least voice an opinion would make the most sense. Both from a rules standpoint and a RP standpoint.

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(10-27-2023, 03:54 PM)Max Morse Wrote: From what I know of the old Corse infocards that are still around and from what the RP was back when I was part of the [UC] official group, they were more or less a shadow group that had heavy influence over Gallic politics, very similar to the way the Mafia did/does in Sicily and southern Italy. The Corse wouldn't necessarily be as influential as the major corporations are in Gallic space, but they have enough influence and money built up over their centuries of running the grey and black market in Gallic space that they have to at least be tolerated.

As per why they have the line in regards to enforcing house laws, that's more to do with them wanting to maintain a control of said grey and black markets. It also has to do with keeping themselves legitimate as far as the Crown/Union is concerned. Again, working very similarly to the way the Mafia operates/operated, where they would have their own "rules" that they would enforce to keep actual legal issues from happening. So basically, the line exists to allow the Corse to police the illegal activities in Gallia without having to have a bunch of extra clauses added on to the ID that would cause confusion.

And yes, if they were to be included into the new government systems, them being their as observers with the ability to at least voice an opinion would make the most sense. Both from a rules standpoint and a RP standpoint.

The line also exists because, IRP, the Corse jointly controls the Provence system, and it is a part of their duties and rights to enforce the law in that system specifically. If there had to be a change to the ID, it should be at most "Can enforce House Law within the Provence system". Even the Gates and Lanes in that system are Unione Corse ID'd. I know I've personally used the line on the ID to tell the Gallic Navy to shove off while in Provence, as an example.

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The benefit of this would be that current govs work with story teams to make sense of things like you guys mentioned - stuff like Corse ambiguity would be worked out directly, they could have a say in Provence + relation to gov + these government-tied entities would work in unison with gov and story so the house itself makes sense to casual players. And Corse+Hogosha become more visible.

The law enforcement line in Corse ID is more redundant than anything considering they have bounty lines. If they've lost the law enforcement line not much would change considering the Combined Fleet is official and could pull out blanket bounty against anyone breaking laws everywhere in Gallia.

This approach would make more sense than a law enforcement line in my opinion, that, and a line to engage in piracy in Provence to issue demands to whoever does stuff they don't like, no need to deal with extra steps, defining extra laws and having tue staff step in every single time a law is updated.

(Also, I'd give Hogosha the same bounty line.)

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