I have discussed this a few times in the past over Skype. And I have not came to a clear conclusion.

Liberty is space USA, Rheinland is Germany, Kusari is Japan and Bretonia is the UK, but what are the Outcasts and Corsairs? Since playing the Freelancer campaign, I believe that Hispania is a descendant of Spain. Once when playing an Outcast I greeted somebody ingame with a Spanish greeting and my group mates were like "Stop saying that Hola s**t, we are Italians." I am more confused with OCs than with Sairs. Judging by all the Spanish names in Alpha, on Malta, in rumors and on Freelancer Wiki, Outcasts are of Spanish ancestry. So my set of questions is, why and when did people start roleplaying Outcasts as in general "not Spaniels" and even claiming that all of them are Italians. Regarding Corsairs, there's not much to ask.

This has been raising my eyebrows for some time. It would be welcome to clear this matter up.

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I think that french and Italian sleeper ships were destroyed before escape, the Outcasts/Corsairs are from the Hispania , the Spanish contingent.

However, what is canon and not is arguable.

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I think Hispania was a name left after major changes to the Freelancer itself somewhere in the production stages. Also, we shouldn't forget term "Hispanics" refer to people like Mexicans as well, so my traces would rather go somewhere towards Mexico and part of Middle and South Americans that are speaking Spanish.

Either scenario would leave a huge plot-hole, since Corsairs named a lot of their places in Greek. Therefore, I think the safest thing to assume is that ship was called Hispania because it could be built mostly by Spain BUT rather contained Mediterrean population.




HOWEVER.

I have different theory to that, but it is highly hypothetical. It is safe to assume that colonization of Solar System wasn't as unified as in terms of later Sol War. The richer countries, such as Japan or the USA, could afford making their own colonies regardless of Starlancer's version of UN. The 'poorer' countries had to relay on bigger countries (Great Britain, Germany, etc.) or just could band up and throw cash in, creating mixed up societies and fusing cultures on the colonies, hence the Hispania and their Spanish-Italian stuff. We can always assume that Hispania was rather made of the Italian, Greek and Hispanic refugees as well.

I would also point out several things around 2002 and 2003, but they would be on borderline of politics at that rate.

Or we can just assume "Sounds cool, let's push it into the game".


@Tunicle I think Starlancer refers to the navies rather than actual colony ships, which were likely build during events of Starlancer.

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Hispania is Mediterranean nations as seen from the naming of their stations. A very big portion is Spanish, yeah, but there are still stations/planets named differently - Tripoli, Crete, Malta, Genoa, etc.

Also more on your topic. I think currently Outcasts are regarded as mostly Spaniards but with a decent portion of Italians in there too, because a lot of people prefer playing them as Italian Mafia men.

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Well the Coalition blew up the original sleeper ship for the Gallia as well as another. Forcing the Hispania to take on extra passengers (apparently it was carrying a much heavier passenger load than the other ship due to this while the French in Discovery lore made a new one in secret) which eventually would split up when the Sabotage of the Engines occurred. Thus creating the Outcast and Corsair organizations.

In vanilla, the Outcasts were generic unspecified Hispanics (this includes Spain as well as Latin American countries besides Brazil). The Corsairs, as can be seen by their base names, were originally intended to be Greek, but Digital Anvil was too lazy/didn't have time to add in a whole new NPC name pool for them, so they use the same one as the Outcasts (hence the occasional Outcasts - Jesus DeJesus vs Corsairs - Jesus Dejesus fights).

When @Irwin and @Reid and I made the Contari Lance OC player faction years and years ago, we decided to make the Contari family Italians from a very tiny Italian minority on Malta which we made up out of whole cloth. This was for the sole purpose of being really snobby and racist to all the other, "uncultured, dirty", Hispanic Maltese. For some reason, everyone else thought Italian Outcasts were really cool and started doing it too.

Back in 4.85, a guy named Sina and some folks made a Corsair group called the [A]narchists with a distinctly Arabic aesthetic. Since then, people have occasionally been a little more daring with pushing the boundaries of what ethnicities the Corsairs might include, but generally have kept to pretty shallow Mexican stereotypes.

Also note that the original Coalition saboteurs are supposed to have stowed away aboard the Hispania, and are the reason that the sleeper ship's engines were originally crippled in the first place. While logically there couldn't be that many people of obviously very non-Hispanic/-Mediterranean ethnicity on the sleeper ship maintaining cover, the Coalition is generally roleplayed as having a myriad of ethnicities within it, especially Russian, Chinese, and anything from within the former Soviet Union -- I myself have a Chinese gunboat captain with an Armenian radar technician within the crew. Theoretically, the Corsairs could thus have any of these ethnicities within them as well, since the SCRA's own lore states that the descendants of the original Coalitioneers lived with the Corsairs for quite awhile, if I'm not mistaken.

My personal take on it is that the Outcasts are north and western Mediterranean, primarily Spanish, Italian, and maybe possibly even Croatian, and the Corsairs are primarily Latin American, Greek, and Arab. However, there's a lot of room to just be creative here, and if you feel like picking an underrepresented culture for an Outcast or Corsair character to be affiliated with makes them a better character, no matter what you do, it's pretty much justifiable. And, of course, sticking with vanilla lore and just being nonspecific Hispanic is pretty solid, too. In general, Freelancer lore isn't realistic in terms of the sort of ethnocultural diversity that one would expect given the background lore, and I'm glad this thread was made for people to discuss the issue more.

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(06-15-2017, 10:33 PM)Tabris Wrote: My personal take on it is that the Outcasts are north and western Mediterranean, primarily Spanish, Italian, and maybe possibly even Croatian, and the Corsairs are primarily Latin American, Greek, and Arab.

Trying to find consistency in Hispania is problematic because there is no consistency.

Both the Outcasts and the Corsairs have Spanish, Italian and Greek references in their House space (in Freelancer vanilla, anyway). For every geographic theory about the origins of the Outcasts and the Corsairs, there is something proving it wrong. The only consistent solution to this conundrum is to assume that when the Hispania's passengers had to choose between either leaving the ship in Omicron Gamma or take their chances and limp on in hopes of finding a more hospital place, their personal choices were not driven by ethnic divisions but by fear and uncertainty about the future. As a result, all of its passengers' origins are reflected in both factions. In terms of inspiration, it's quite possible the developers thought along the lines of a Roman Empire in space that also split in twain.

Corsairs:
- Cadiz (Hispanic, Spain)
- Leon (Hispanic, Spain)
- Crete (Greek)
- Kalhmera (Greek)
- Tripoli (Italian / Roman)

Outcasts:
- Cali (Hispanic, Colombia)
- Ruiz (Hispanic, Mexico)
- Elysium (Greek)
- Malta (Italian / Maltese)
- Mallorca (Hispanic, Spain / Catalonia)
- Vesuvius (Italian)
- Carinea (Italian)

Disputed territory:
- Pygar (Barbarella reference)
- Vespus (Wing Commander reference)

As a sidenote, I suspect Carinea is a misspelled reference to one of Rome's seven hills (Carinae) considering it is in the same solar system that references Naples through planet Vesuvius.

You have to remember that the lore of freelancer and star-lancer is that earth was in a different history then ours. IE a world where the cold war went on right up into space. So you have to look at the cold war nations, whoever was communist was not on an alliance sleeper ship.

so if you look at the cold war split as far as Europe goes. only the big allies from ww2 had their own ships. Now why the Spanish ships had to combine the entirety of the Mediterranean when Malta itself had been rich on its own is beyond me. but im sure some sort of logistical space reasons for that.

Also freelancer lore was the coalition took over earth. So who we had left alliance wise were in space and probably never even got to see their "home" this lends to the theory that those selected for each sleeper ship were done so by family and genetic affiliation and obviously the liberty housed the industrial and well to do as the corps that spring out of liberty continue to be.. the big influences.


The biggest point is that these ships were symbolic in name only for what were thier occupants. Alliance society was probably already breaking down as the final end was coming.. whoever refused or hard line resisted where in these sleeper ships, the best of the best..or..what was left were there. So i wouldent hold anything from earth or our understanding of culture having survived outside of whatever society each colony had in mind to make. This makes freelancer freelancer and not history class.

I know this is more than a little bit of a Necro post but I wanted to add a little bit more to the conversation considering this thread shows up in the top google searches on this topic.

As others have already pointed out, the two factions both share a mix of Spanish, Italian, and Greek naming conventions and dividing them along ethnic lines doesn't make much sense. It's clear the occupants of the Hispania were a mixed bunch.

The clearest line one can draw solely from in-game sources is that The Outcasts tend to theme around organized crime, with clear allusions to drug cartels. The Corsairs, while also engaging in their own share of crime, tend to operate as more of a fledgling "nation" with some pretty clear allusions to Greco-Roman traditions (Corsairs sending adolescents out into the Malvada nebula as a rite of passage immediately brings to mind the prevalent - but historically inaccurate - idea of the Spartan rite of passage wherein a Spartan boy must venture out into the wilderness alone with only a spear and single cloak/blanket and return with a kill. Again, historically inaccurate but a common/pervasive myth.)

The names of the factions are their own sort of "tell". The "Outcasts" were not cast out of the Hispania, nor can they be considered outcasts of the other houses so why are they called Outcasts? Their willing break from "civilized" society is what makes them Outcasts. They engage in drug trafficking, slavery, and are violent criminals as a near whole. The "Corsairs", conversely, take their name from French privateers having been granted a letter of marque (lettre de marque, also called a lettre de course, giving "corsairs" their name). Corsairs, generally speaking, were legalized pirates but they were distinct in conducting themselves in accordance with admiralty law and didn't possess the same brutal notoriety as other "pirates". The word became synonymous with a sort of swashbuckling high-class rogue archetype. Barbary pirates of North Africa and the Ottoman Empire were sometimes called Turkish Corsairs owing to their wealth and power along the southern mediterranean. The "Corsairs" of Freelancer seem - thematically - to be a mix of these two groups of corsairs, as the Corsairs of Freelancer do not engage in slave trading, have their own codes and laws, and primarily target other unlawful factions, or military targets for plunder.

A worthy note as to how the Outcasts came to be RP'ed as primarily Italian is owed heavily to the influence of The Sopranos television show at the time Freelancer was being played by a lot of people. People wanted to RP Mafioso types, the Outcasts have dark, sleek ships and planet "Malta" sticks out as a recognizably "Italian" place to most people that may not otherwise recognize or think about the other places and names amongst the two factions. So, the Outcasts ended up being filled with players wanting to RP the mafia even though in-game material paints the faction as more mexican drug cartel than mob. As an ironic consequence of this, the Corsairs ended up being filled with players wanting to RP Mexican and Spanish archetypes.

In the end, the clearest distinction in-game between the two factions is a matter of lawfulness, not ethnicity.

The Outcasts are fairly clear-cut criminals that engage in drug trafficking, slave trading, and more. The faction uses the drug Cardamine in an attempt to control the other house factions, rather than trying to be a faction of their own.

The Corsairs are more of a fledgling nation that you could see as what "House Hispania" might look like. Their criminal activities are born more out of necessity than anything and they tend to target other unlawfuls and military targets rather than civilians.

As far as Discovery RP is concerned, I'd personally love to see the Corsairs and Outcasts unite into a "House Hispania", with radical elements of the two factions clinging to the criminal underbelly. As the user Batavia brought up above, I think it would be amazingly rich RP to see Hispania as a sort of split Roman Empire kind of faction. The factions are seperated by pretty vast distance with a lot of hostile territory in the middle. Solidifying that territory and making the Omicrons the territory of a united Hispania would be pretty neat if you ask me.

(05-14-2024, 03:46 PM)shadowkain666 Wrote: I know this is more than a little bit of a Necro post but I wanted to add a little bit more to the conversation considering this thread shows up in the top google searches on this topic.

As others have already pointed out, the two factions both share a mix of Spanish, Italian, and Greek naming conventions and dividing them along ethnic lines doesn't make much sense. It's clear the occupants of the Hispania were a mixed bunch.

The clearest line one can draw solely from in-game sources is that The Outcasts tend to theme around organized crime, with clear allusions to drug cartels. The Corsairs, while also engaging in their own share of crime, tend to operate as more of a fledgling "nation" with some pretty clear allusions to Greco-Roman traditions (Corsairs sending adolescents out into the Malvada nebula as a rite of passage immediately brings to mind the prevalent - but historically inaccurate - idea of the Spartan rite of passage wherein a Spartan boy must venture out into the wilderness alone with only a spear and single cloak/blanket and return with a kill. Again, historically inaccurate but a common/pervasive myth.)

The names of the factions are their own sort of "tell". The "Outcasts" were not cast out of the Hispania, nor can they be considered outcasts of the other houses so why are they called Outcasts? Their willing break from "civilized" society is what makes them Outcasts. They engage in drug trafficking, slavery, and are violent criminals as a near whole. The "Corsairs", conversely, take their name from French privateers having been granted a letter of marque (lettre de marque, also called a lettre de course, giving "corsairs" their name). Corsairs, generally speaking, were legalized pirates but they were distinct in conducting themselves in accordance with admiralty law and didn't possess the same brutal notoriety as other "pirates". The word became synonymous with a sort of swashbuckling high-class rogue archetype. Barbary pirates of North Africa and the Ottoman Empire were sometimes called Turkish Corsairs owing to their wealth and power along the southern mediterranean. The "Corsairs" of Freelancer seem - thematically - to be a mix of these two groups of corsairs, as the Corsairs of Freelancer do not engage in slave trading, have their own codes and laws, and primarily target other unlawful factions, or military targets for plunder.

A worthy note as to how the Outcasts came to be RP'ed as primarily Italian is owed heavily to the influence of The Sopranos television show at the time Freelancer was being played by a lot of people. People wanted to RP Mafioso types, the Outcasts have dark, sleek ships and planet "Malta" sticks out as a recognizably "Italian" place to most people that may not otherwise recognize or think about the other places and names amongst the two factions. So, the Outcasts ended up being filled with players wanting to RP the mafia even though in-game material paints the faction as more mexican drug cartel than mob. As an ironic consequence of this, the Corsairs ended up being filled with players wanting to RP Mexican and Spanish archetypes.

In the end, the clearest distinction in-game between the two factions is a matter of lawfulness, not ethnicity.

The Outcasts are fairly clear-cut criminals that engage in drug trafficking, slave trading, and more. The faction uses the drug Cardamine in an attempt to control the other house factions, rather than trying to be a faction of their own.

The Corsairs are more of a fledgling nation that you could see as what "House Hispania" might look like. Their criminal activities are born more out of necessity than anything and they tend to target other unlawfuls and military targets rather than civilians.

As far as Discovery RP is concerned, I'd personally love to see the Corsairs and Outcasts unite into a "House Hispania", with radical elements of the two factions clinging to the criminal underbelly. As the user Batavia brought up above, I think it would be amazingly rich RP to see Hispania as a sort of split Roman Empire kind of faction. The factions are seperated by pretty vast distance with a lot of hostile territory in the middle. Solidifying that territory and making the Omicrons the territory of a united Hispania would be pretty neat if you ask me.

As someone who has had discussions about Hispania in recent weeks with people in the Aux discord, (especially those of Hispanic/Latin descent, of note), I feel merging the two groups into a sixth house and fleshing them out from their stereotype-ridden original writing (no offense to those who play in those factions, or to the story devs, this were the cards dealt to us by DA, and we've played them as we can) would be a good idea at face value, but could pose an issue for factions like Order, Core and Zoners unless appropriate partitioning of Hispania and those smaller factions' territories are preserved at least to some degree - possibly with the introduction of systems betwixt Rheinland and the Omicrons/Omegas. There also lies the issue of lore - I'm no expert, but I don't see how we could feasibly get Corsairs and Outcasts to surrender their mutual sovereignty to form a house, at least not without a lot of internal upheaval. I don't see how logistically a House Hispania could be feasible from a lore or game design perspective without ripping out plenty of kitchen sinks.

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